but there is in the american action cinema and particularly this idea that means justify ends, and that it's just a given that in order effectively to fight criminals or evildoers, that the heroes have to descend to the same moral level, and i think bigelow, who is a male oriented filmmaker, does buy into this myth. well, the question is, is it a myth? is it a myth? is it a valid archetype? what is it? i think we have to debate that. >> can we defeat terrorism by playing by gentlemanly rules, to use the same kind of reference point? >> you're asking a film critic? you're really asking a film critic? >> you guys make moral judgments all the time. >> actually, i don't know the answer to that, but i do know if you look at our fiction -- our so-called dramatic or narrative cinema, that is ringingly endorsed in the same way that, you know, the death penalty and vengeance is sanctified in our cinema. if you look at a documentary like alex gibney's great oscar-winning film "taxi to the dark side," you have a lot of fbi people, not cia, arguing that extreme interrogation doesn't work. that it m